I just think its baloney. Thats why. I feel like this is more about the spirit of the dress code than the exact rules of the code. All I want, just once in my life, is a pair of capris that fit like capris. The skirts/dresses weve worn around him were all knee length or longer, and the sleeveless stuff was nice enough in my opinion, not at all sportswear-like. More about Vanessa Friedman, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/02/style/shorts-at-work-men.html. I collect vintage clothing and have a couple pairs of split crotch bloomers. 13 things you should never wear to work in the summer. (This classist thing is also why theres an old, British joke that the Australian Army has shorts as part of their uniform, by the way), Business-style shorts (knee-length) sit like pants: you dont have to adjust them at all, straight, flat and ironed. Last summer, when it did not rain for 2 months and we had constant days over 30C, you better believe that all of my team, except for the boss, came to work in shorts. Yep, nice shorts are typical officewear in Texas and Florida too, during the hottest 3 months of the 6-month summer. Thats better than rompers/jumpsuits IMO. I used to work for a bank in their corporate offices, and their policy was no bare legs- the best pair of pantyhose I ever found were called Hipstick. To this day Im still bewildered by it. They had never seen such a thing in their conservative downtown office before. In Bermuda all the men wear pastel Bermuda shorts with suits and dress socks. The more you describe him, the more awesome he sounds! And yes, that meant pantyhose, always. Oh and something that looked like a suit dress but had shorts on the bottom. But a lot of standards of professional dress are fairly arbitrary, and are conventions only because they've become conventions, not necessarily because there's any inherent logic to them. Ill second Amlactin lotion or Gold Bond rough and bumpy skin lotion. Why wait? Never caught on, I guess -lol. Shorts are definitely frowned on where I work but capri pants are OK (its a somewhat casual office). what are your best tips for attending professional conferences? I was going to make this same comment. I loled. Until they were reliably potty trained so 3 or 4 or so they were dressed in dresses for easy diapering and then later to make it easy for a beginner to use the potty without dealing with buttons and suspenders etc. Good for them! :). (I dont think of it as totally inappropriate, more filed under, not the best choice for office wear). Christine And none of us were Scottish at all. I work in a job where shorts are encouraged and practically required so you dont fall out from the heat. Where I went to high school (So Cal in the early 80s), it would have been unthinkable to prohibit shorts at any time of the year. My city reaches inner-circle-of-hell levels of sweltering humidity, so adding an extra layer would defeat the purpose imo. Flesh-colored tights read as skin. Our dress stretches from business casual to just plain casual (jeans every day, etc) and we are banning shorts? If only I could get everyone who wore above the knee skirts (by more than an inch) to wear hose. In case youre wondering, no, I dont live in a warm climate. Shorts and or skirts being considered unprofessional in the work place is outdated. They are all horribly uncomfortable no matter what. No-nos include shorts, tight pants and any "excessive" accessories, hairstyles or . Once upon a time, my beloved, charismatic boss (who was quite senior in the company) showed up in knee-length Bermuda shorts when he stopped into the office on his way somewhere casual. I think. I have asked my boss if I got even longer shorts, to the knee or just below, whether he would call those capris. lol Also didnt know Chanel had jeans. I suppose if I were a Team Shorts person though Id change into them before leaving the office or try to find some fashionable/dressy ones that felt office appropriatelonger, floaty shorts made of more upscale fabrics seem to be in right now, so I dont think its an impossible feat. My alma mater was big on Greek like and I saw no shortages of variations of this (though to be fair, I saw plenty of it from non-Greek guys too). Not so (knee length) shorts. When you see them in photos and old TV shows now they look ridiculous, but thats one of those chicken/egg questions (did it die out because they looked ridiculous, or do they look ridiculous because it died out? I honestly have never owned a regular pair of ladies pumps in my entire life (and Im over 50.). Ah. In this role she covers global fashion for both The New York Times and International New York Times. (Its up there with the male foot and sandals.). I have several pairs Ive made myself, so they fit perfectly. In the summer our owner of our CPA firm wears shorts and a nicer polo and flip flops. And we were not a fancy office at alljeans totally acceptable, etc. Also called the mushroom hairstyle is characterized by bluntly cut bangs surrounding your head and then brushed forward. Personally, Id find shorts under a skirt torturously uncomfortable. Its amazing how sometimes clothing seems okay to me at home. My former school (and a LOT of schools around here, come to think of it) has that kind of flappy-front skort for their little girls (K-6) uniforms. That said, this stuff can be worth pushing back on if youve got capital to spend and are invested in changing it. Plus, hard to pee! Target and Walmart are not the same. I did not know Utility Kilts were a thing before today, and I love everything about them. Im having a vivid flashback of a ripped-tights/denim shorts/converse sneakers outfit I wore in middle school. This outfit looks really nice and I dont see anything the least office or business inappropriate about it. Crinkly material but on purpose. Shorts are accepted in my office. Theres something about skirts that dresses up an outfit. Just wear your work clothes to happy hour! (That is, if you do happy hour at all. Yet it is also true that for most of the history of mens dress codes, the idea of wearing shorts at work was pretty much heresy at least in a white-collar office environment, even after the rise of casual Fridays. (And long flowy skirts tend to feel social to me, not like business. This is her first office/full-time job ever, so part of my job is also making sure she understands office norms. Put On the Right Shirt If you want to achieve a business casual outfit with your shorts, avoid t-shirts and performance polo shirts. Her law school instructed her always to wear skirts to interviews, because apparently some East Coast judges consider PANTS inappropriate work wear for women (!). I worked my way up to bright pink hair. It runs around $22.00 for a good sized bottle on Amazon. Check at an outdoor clothing story like REI. She didnt appear to be a promo girl/model or anything, she was walking with two normally business-attired other people. I admire his courage. on warmer days I have worn them with heels and a button up and no one has ever batted an eye (Ive even gotten complimented on them). But even when Ive spent time in Florida during the summer Im a no-shorts-outside person. (Im a trans man, so Im wellll familiar with that particular fit problem. my employee is job-searching should I tell my manager? Three hours later, the dress code that goes out to every DOD civilian police officer in the entire US had been updated to specify that bifurcate legs were required on mens admin uniforms. I wear short under my skirts for the same reason. I dont know if youre in the Pretreatment side of environmental compliance, but if you are, and will be in Tacoma for the NACWA workshop, youll see me in kilts. Light weight summer fabric but the shorts were dressy. I wear them in the winter, too, with knee-high socks.. Fishbelly white for me, thanks!). Im pretty sure most people at work have no idea they arent skirts. Does not interfere with performance of duties. Body glide is great, but honestly just use a stick deodorant on your thighs. Seriously- I was an EXTREMELY creative dresser in my HS years, and the only thing that I was ever warned about being against the dress code was spiked wristbands (and I knew better than to wear mine to school, ha!). I truly dont know why its so ingrained in my brain, but it truly is. I had a couple of them myself. That means men must wear a collared shirt and tailored pants or khakis. Even in cold, rainy weather, its unusual to see long pants. But now I like the idea of long shorts, an untucked shirt and open-toe sandals at work. Not at work. They make me feel very self-conscious and under-dressed, so I stick to trousers in lighter fabrics, and skirts. Whoa 115-120 degrees on average? It would also depend in the material-the shiny silky gym shorts would be less discrete (and more likely to cause a mishap) than something like cotton khakis. Its not a modesty thing, we can still wear sleeveless shirts and sundresses. Oh man, I had one of those. I also dont want to see hairy shoulders and backs, so please guys, no sleeveless tees or wife-beaters either! The tights help with thigh chafing! Its definitely a golf meeting in Palm Springs vibe, but clearly curated and intentional, rather than haphazard or comfort-driven. But yes, theres a definite difference between a bar and a club. Im trying to picture that in my mind. Now its a costume. A bit off topic but to the point of shorts being a cultural construct: When I lived in Europe, I once wore shorts while walking into town to get ice cream on a really hot day. (Yes, casual shorts that end at upper-thigh level ride up. Surely you can do good work in either one but as a society, weve always used clothes to communicate messages about who we are and what were doing. The narrow range of fabrics used for dress clothes may not work for you! This is very timely because our big boss banned shorts this summer. Alsoin Bermuda it is normal business wear to have on shorts (for men anyway, usually in bright colors and knee-high socks!) Ugh. Im not sure if this is a counterpoint or a supporting anecdote to the no showing skin below the knee theory, but I used to have a uniformed position, with uniform policy set at a national level and several variations for men, women, function, and season of the year. conference gives the exact same speaker gift every year, someone replaced my note with a ruder note, and more, my new coworkers annoying habits are driving me mad. We see them as one step closer to beach wear. But I can wear knee-length capris in summer (more of a skimmer style as opposed to the ones that end three inches above your ankle). I think mine would be ok with it, as we lean towards hip business casual, but that wouldnt fly everywhere. So this bermuda short suit is deemed not appropriate while a skirt of the same length is. How about skants? The other is inherently casual. This morning I saw an ad for Torrid on my FB page and this one person said leggings are not professional and for cheap people. On days he has no meetings. Imagine a professional outfit that one would wear working in a lab. So yeah, rules are arbitrary! i have never heard of them being carried like a fashion accessory arent they a bit ungainly? Sexist and also kind of transphobic. Its not the runway stuff, its the ready-to-wear, which is where the bulk of their sales come from. I was at a summer camp focusing on government where we were required to wear business clothes (or as close as possible) for the entire week with the exception of one day, when we were scheduled to go the local zoo after a meeting with local politicians. During the winter I wear tights and/or boots, so it doesnt matter. But if your workplace has a certain expectation of professional wear, then thats what you need to follow, or find a job where you can wear shorts if you feel like it. There are offices where shorts are fine, just like there are offices where sweatpants are fine. I almost always wear skirts and dresses and so I never wore any of my denim skirts at that job. She had a lot of political capital so she could get away with it, but they never caught on. I cant wear heels, or really, any type of shoe that is not solid and supportive (Im big on combat boots, docs, sneaker boots, and such like for this reason) The disability that causes this is not orthopedic in nature (this was thoroughly investigated when I was a child) so orthotics dont help (but cushy pads do. It could be a specific set of clothes such as a uniform or standards to follow when picking your own clothing and managing your overall appearance. I hated skirts & dresses and flat out REFUSED to wear them. I have a Scottish friend who owns a tux/kilt outfit that he wears to formal affairs, regardless of the national origin of the affair. I think one reason might be that many people wear their shorts too short so it seems like more of a flirting thing than a business thing. I will note that no one else was dressed this way, including the groom, and that the grooms family was not, in fact, Scottish. East coast here and no ones ever batted an eye at shorts or sundresses in the office. To give a very simply example of what I mean; if you pay attention for a while, youll note that shorts are just inclined to try and ride up and bunch up high on the inner thighs. Actually, I just did my utmost to wear nothing but full-length trousers, but anything above mid-calf got tights under it. In adulthood, shorts are largely associated with out-of-office time, be it sports, summer or just schlubbing around the house. It amused us greatly. Professional meaning, knee length and not jeans and either black or dark blue. Youre not the first person here Ive seen calling capris and other below the knee womens pants shorts, unless somethings changed, thats really not the proper terminology. However last year I found some shorts that are technically I think pedal-pushers? The tech kids (of all ages) wear shorts, tees, hoodies, and flip-flops. The formal suit shorts that I saw in the mid-late 00s had shorts that were Bermuda length and they generally looked like Hi Im new to business culture.. It is also true that not all shorts are created equal. Shlubby carbo shorts: why we cant wear nice shorts at work. My husband, a computer programmer / architect / manager of PhDs, on the west coast (casual) was called to the Toronto office for a meeting (about making him the head of a new division based in Vancouver). Theyre more or less universally unflattering, so it makes sense that there wouldnt be a ton of companies trying to make officewear out of them. Or they couldve been hanging upside down from something on the playground. Something about how theyre cut theres this fabric in the middle that just chafes my inner thighs like nobodys business. I also could never see a girls butt hanging out of shorts again and be quite fine. I wear above-the-knee sundresses sometimes. But I think you could pair a loose fitting black skirt with some black shorts underneath? Even to important meetings where he is in a nice designer suit. If mens shorts were too short, or if women had to cover up, there were rent-some-trousers vendors outside St. Marks in Venice. Mine is really pretty casual when it comes to summer and people just tend to wear whats comfy without being inappropriate. Yeah, I never really wore jean shorts when I lived in Phoenix! I know they make those for golfing but the skirts tend to be shorter and not office appropriate, and I dont know if they make them as an everyday outfit. For that day, we could dress like typical (90s) teenagers. Good quality heavy cotton and it was dressy enough for church. I live in humidity hell and they are great in a summer office environment under a skirt. True, Im just not sure when that trend started. However, in the modern age of menswear these two polar opposites, which at one point in time would've repelled each other like the negative sides of magnets, have somehow become relatively . Skirts dont seem to suffer from the highlighting the knee conundrum as much, and Im not sure why. For men wearing shorts, I think it is also because (in the UK at least) only young boys wore them, so they still have the subconscious thought that if you are wearing shorts at work, you are young, therefore junior and not to be taken seriously, maybe? In my book flattering is a totally subjective measurement based only on whether *I* like how something looks on me, not on anyone elses opinion of how it looks, or if it makes my body look culturally acceptable, LOL. That said, my bosss boss has banned shorts, sandals and t-shirts with prints, but not said anything about skirts or even sleeveless summer dresses or sleeveless blouses. Every Friday. This is sooo much a cultural thing. No love for the Bermuda shorts, short-sleeved dress shirt, and tie for men? My business is located between Technology Gulch and the Design District (home furnishings) in San Francisco. That said, a commenter here once speculated that the no-shorts rule stems from the fact that the rule used to be no bare skin below the waist. Ha! is it okay for your bra straps to show at work? Super comfy and no stretch, which means theyve survived the daily cycling commute a lot longer than other jeans. Yes NASA'S APOLLO engineers were smart men and that's why they wore short-sleeved, white dress shirts through sweltering summers in places like Houston. If her job requires business casual, though (once she stops working remote) shes going to have to get used to them, because her only other options are leggings and shorts. Examples of what not to wear includes ripped jeans, sweatshirts and flipflops. Study enough fashion history and you will realize that its ALL completely arbitrary. Im also in IT, and were even more casual. . People actually do wear jumpsuits to my office and Ive never given them a second thought except that I could never pull them off! But then we also allow shorts :-). Now I understand my old coworkers perfectly. I have a coworker who wears a strappy one with a short full skirt. Unprofessional hairstyles can actively work against you and hold you back in the workplace. :-). Shorts tend* to be constructed of denim, cargo, and other cloth that reads as casual, while (business-appropriate) skirts and dresses are often made of fabric that reads more professional. Shorts suiting is very in again! I feel like all the dress pants I see now are cropped. Professional, comfortable, suitable for my work. I do work in a somewhat casual office, but not sweat pants casual (as in, if I had shorts a different length and made out of denim on, it would not be seen as appropriate). Womens shorts usually dont unless you get bermuda shorts. I am thin and have tried every style. Scarred him for life. Shorts are the opposite of serious adult clothing. (All of which were reasons. I figured they werent made anymore, but I just looked and Nasty Gal has one for sale. For skirts, this meant youd have to wear pantyhose. Ill probably wear them well into October. We have a few guys in my IT department that wear utili-kilts, but I have never seen a Wrangler denim kiltthats just a new level of kiltery! I look like crap in most shorts. I am a goat among gazelles. Pantyhose and pumps are still required if you wear the skirt, which is a bit ridiculous because the work generally involves standing and walking all day. Like this? He 100% showed up to the wedding in a kilt upon request, was fed much beer, and did not die of heatstroke. The ones I have seen people wearing at work have been they typically look like a pant with the same color shirt tucked in, and most of the women I have seen wearing them are wearing them with a blazer. When I read this my first thought was the character Petra on Jane the Virgin. He read the dress code carefully. Amount of skin shown isnt the only factor when deciding formality, and a knee-length suit skirt is decidedly more formal than a pair of knee-length shorts, just as my button-up silky pajama top is in no way a substitute for my button-up silky work shirt. For a time, I went to a conservative religious school where pantyhose were required during class hours; I consistently skirted the requirement buy purchasing knee-high socks in fun colors and hoping my skirt came down long enough to hide the fact that there were no hose under the socks. I could not figure out a reason why that was less appropriate than saggy jeans, or a miniskirt (without tights). Bermuda shorts really ought to be a thing everywhere that it gets as hot and humid as Bermuda! The right shirts to pair your shorts with are button-down shirts. Its been a long time since I bought jeans and youve probably already tried these, but back then Gap jeans were pretty good. I work in a casual dress environment and the rule is also an unofficial no shorts, no flip flops/sandals. The shorts may be the same length as a skirt, but may appear to expose more skin/expose differently. For me, shorts tend to fall into the same level of formality as not-your-best-jeans. You can wear a suit, or you can wear vinyl/fishnet and go straight to the fetish club after work. I had a coworker who would wear a black full-length jumpsuit with wide flowing legs, combined with nice jewelry, and it looked amazing. Thank you. Stick with a blouse and youll always be safe. You're right that it doesn't make logical sense that a skirt of the same length and material would be fine when shorts are not. Purse = sporran After 5pm, there is apparently a dress code for anyone on the property. I remember wearing a floral romper over black tights in the 90s and honestly that was kind of a Look. Didnt matter what size, shape, height, age no one looked bad. - Quora. Compare, for instance, the comfort level of a track suit versus a structured business suit. Thanks! I discovered it when I started running (short shorts = chafing nightmare), and dont know how I lived without it for everyday skirt-wearing. HR said it was a no-no, and the CEO quickly overruled HR saying he was going to wear shorts himself on days like that. I stick to dresses. I hate skirts for that reason! I couldt imagine a cold state like Michigan or Alaska ever having shorts be part of business culture.. Shorts have so many more ways they can fit uncomfortably (gapping in the back, digging into your belly, digging into your thighs) where skirts will accommodate your body! cant see at all why that would happen [insert winking emoji], My husband wore one of those tees when we got married. You have to be careful in how you move in a skirt/dress. Nike made really nice ones too for a while, but the past couple of years they are mostly too athletic looking to get away with wearing to work. I wear lingerie to night clubs, and *nothing* for my husband, LOL. I feel like if you wouldnt wear the top or bottom of a jumpsuit on its own to work, then you shouldnt wear the jumpsuit, but if both the top and bottom would be work appropriate on their own, then youre probably fine wearing the whole jumpsuit to work. There is a reason, when we are talking about people in charge, we say, They wear the pants. No one says, They wear the shorts.. A bar does not automatically mean dressing inappropriately. A not tight pencil skirt is all that, but with even less give around your waist and thighs. I havent worn long trousers in over a decade, Mr. Browne said. True! I walked into her office took one look at the Swiss Miss Chocolate girl manifest and busted laughing. So silly! Yamiche Alcindor reports on how Black Americans often face discrimination because of the way they wear their hair, especially in school and at work. Ive worked in places that are very much on the casual side of business casual and have never seen one, even though they seem to cover the appropriate amount of skin. There is one woman in my office who wears maxi-skirts all the time, but they are always flowy pleated, thin material she looks like a stereotypical hippy- which she is! I will say I dont wear it too often because 68 degrees F is just a tad to cold for me for shorts/skirts. That was, in fact, A Thing at some point in the 1990s. She talked about wearing hose with her shorts suits. I just googled pictures of her and they come just at the knee, but are also high-waisted and matched with a blazer. You cant wear a kilt! Read the regs, sir. ), I also tend to crash into things a lot and am constantly covered with bumps, scrapes, burns, scratches, cuts, bruises, and faded scars of all the above (which SHOULDNT be an issue, but many people think it looks unprofessional.). That is the one and only shorts as fashion example I could think of, too. Wearing skirts and dresses around most animals is just not as easy as pants. I had a nice jumpsuit years ago. Plunging necklines, midriff-revealing crop tops, sheer fabrics, mini skirts, and dresses don't belong in the workplace. (And honestly, Ive always thought itd be more environmentally friendly to allow cooler clothing so we can turn the A/C to something less than freezing cold in the middle of a heat spell.). On another occasion, my teachers took us to the theatre for the day, 2.5 hours away by bus and insisted we dressed up for it (again, to the best of our ability. And if the person in charge of setting the dress code was a man (gasp! My dad in 1984 was still sporting skin-tight polyester tennis shorts from the 70s because he refused to throw anything away or acknowledge that time hadnt stopped in 1975. Yeah it was a big deal when young boys were put in pants. I have a skort I work to work! Old Navy has pants that come in size + length (for example, I am an 8 short), many of which come in work fabrics. Means you can avoid the problem I had as a kid, which was clothes companies assuming that bigger hips = longer legs. I was living in a warm weather climate at the time, so I dont know if those just never caught on or if I dont see them because it is too cold where I live. Someone on the grooms side (the bride was my cousin) showed up to the wedding in full-on Highlander gear, including a kilt, one of those jackets you wear with the kilt, the socks with the little doo-dads on them, the little purse (I think its called a sporran? Break an ankle? Thats what I was trying to describe, SheLooksFamiliar. A couple of my male coworkers have shorts that look almost as good as slacks. Are city shorts still a thing? Crying with laughter. The outseam is 18 so it does fall above the knee but theyre not as short as many of the other sport skorts out there. I also believe that there are uniform shorts for bicycle police in the summer. I have a pair of mom jeans that I wear to work (were very casual as long as its not sweatpants, pretty much everything goes) and theyre the best. My Aunt kept my cousin Tom in grey flannel shorts until he was 14. A pantsuit or skirt suit. I couldt imagine a cold state like Michigan or Alaska ever having shorts be part of business culture. On the night of the Christmas party it was about -5C with ice on the ground. If you want something knee length, Id recommend the Columbia Saturday Trail II Knee Pants. and the history behind much of it! I get where ENFP is coming from though. related to temperature: I should also specify that we also spent around half our time outdoors in said urban setting. When I was in middle school (1979-81), people wore regular cutoffs and jogging or athletic shorts and no one batted an eye- AS IT SHOULD BE. I may or may not be looking for those shorts now to recreate that outfit. Signed someone who accidentally bought a cute dress that turned out to be a skort. Instead of arguing the point, she thanked the OP and asked what would be appropriate instead. We don't need you leaving a trail of dead skin wherever you roam. Ive been doing this since the 80s (SoCal too) because just thought it looked BETTER than bare legs (and while I may wear some eyebrow raising things, I have never been much of a skin shower. Especially since I take the bus and walk a mile each way. My workplace doesnt forbid shorts but I usually dont like to wear them personally (though we have a few guys in the office who are the year-round-shorts-wearers) because I usually only find shorts that I think are too short on me.

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