How? GROSS: OK. Who are his friends? It was like I never shut up about suicide back then. So in script that made prominent use of a pentagram, they stenciled their drumheads and guitars with their names. But mostly, I just love to work. His novel Wolf In White Van is now out in paperback. I get to do this. The Mountain Goats' plans for touring in 2020 were scuttled due to the COVID-19 pandemic; in response, to help the group's crew and accompanists recover some of their lost income, Darnielle wrote and released Songs for Pierre Chuvin in March 2020. It was weird. But the thing about metal that attracted me then was the energy and the total lack of guile. GROSS: So I want to play one of your songs. DARNIELLE: Oh (laughter) I feel really weird - it's interesting because I never talk about this. GROSS: That's John Darnielle reading from his new novel, "Wolf In White Van." GROSS: So you have - your first novel is on that series of short books called "33 1/3," in which somebody writes a tribute to their favorite album. It's a practice I've cultivated. hide caption. I made a thing. My girlfriend and I had gotten into really hard drugs, heroin, and we were doing it a lot and enjoying it. John Darnielle, the lead singer of indie rock outfit The Mountain Goats, confirmed as much during a recent phone interview with WWE.com. DARNIELLE: Sure, it was music for me. As a caregiver I'm not there to take care of myself, and it is not a patient's responsibility to take care of any of my stuff, right? John Darnielle, welcome to FRESH AIR. When you're 12, the teacher isn't really a person to you, and so you tell funny stories like what if the teacher wore a clown hat? This is about a fictional couple that you wrote many songs about. It's a lot, you know? I was just sort of trying to write a scene that was familiar to me 'cause I used to go across the parking lot at Claremont High and smoke cigarettes with the metal kids. hide caption. As soon as those daily, tribal-drum-heavy round trips came to a sudden stop, it was all John Darnielle, lead singer of the Mountain Goats. That performative element is how I wrote the book, by asking myself questions about what happens then? Theres no benefit in that. It's, like, I know people who got way, way closer to the edge than I did. On getting arrested for heroin possession, an incident that in part inspired the Mountain Goats song "Dance Music". So I follow you down your twisting alleyways, find a few cul-de-sacs of my own. DARNIELLE: Yes, yes, yes - on behalf of Satan (laughter). Top row, left to right: Margo Price, Tianna Esperanza, renforshort; bottom row, left to right: The Mountain Goats, Indigo Sparke And were listening to Terrys interview with John Darnielle, the founder, singer and songwriter of the band The Mountain Goats. Darnielle not only writes about troubled teenagers; he used to work with them as an assistant nurse and counselor in psychiatric institutions. I'm often very interested in bands when only people who already know them are paying attention. If not uniquely Christian, that's the one we usually think of - right? DL Anderson/Courtesy of the artist So that's what was going on is sort of there's this moment after - I mean, you get - when you're taking a lot of drugs, you go through these periods of feeling like you're golden and nothing can touch you, and the police are stupid and they can't catch you and all this kind of stuff. DAVIES: John Darnielle, founder of the band The Mountain Goats, speaking last year with Terry Gross. Magic: The Gathering's Secret Lair Drop Series recently announced a new set of land cards curated by The Mountain Goats lead singer John Darnielle the set is part of the Secret Lair. But when - if you don't have a way of doing that, if doing that will have consequences that you can't shoulder, then it sits there and festers and starts to sort of glow, you know (laughter)? But there was no touring for over a year. You don't want them to feel ugly. Then Jason Isbell announced he was going to require masks and proof of vaccination at his shows and it was like, if Jason can put his operation at risk by taking a stand, then who am I to not take a stand, too? That's a choice that the listener makes, to share that part of themselves with the artist who hopefully shared part of himself. When they get to Tallahassee, that's when they run out of road, and so they live in the same decaying house. And you say, yes, but it's my body, and I'll do what I like with it, right? GROSS: That's "No Children" from The Mountain Goats' album "Tallahassee." Its about a man who as a teenager lived in fantasies inspired by metal, comic books and games, and shot himself in the face. And that was something that as a child I was really curious about to an almost morbid point. When I write a song, it's like showing up to work: I clock in and start doing my thing, and I'm good at it. Returning to that meant getting back into clubs. Originally broadcast Sept. 17, 2014, This is FRESH AIR. And that performative element is sort of how I wrote the book, by asking myself questions about, well then, what happens then? And I like to hear as many peoples' stories as I can because if somebody wants to share their story with me, I want to honor that, you know? They yelled at us and called us names and were really unpleasant, and they had to leave. And I think part of that's because you're just discovering the power of this amazing art form. There is no sign of land. As you learn them you'll lose a little of that crazy spontaneity, but hopefully what you gain is expertise, which generally speaking is going to take you to a more interesting place. John Darnielle, the lead singer of the Mountain Goats, has a famously devoted following, and the band's new album, The Life of the World to Come, is teeming with religious references: Every song. You may know American band The Mountain Goats from their upbeat, folksy songs about dysfunction and failure, growing up in the middle of Nowheresville, Texas, or that intoxicating feeling of. March 12, 2018 Taking the Mountain Stage for the second time, The Mountain Goats bring a fresh set of songs from its recent album, Goths. DARNIELLE: It's an accident insofar as he sort of got caught in a sequence of movement that sort of ran ahead of him. Last year I got really into Croatian literature. GROSS: That was released in - what? Darnielle says he had the feeling of "being uprooted a lot and not being able to make friends and keep them. I hope it stays dark forever. But then Delta started to rise and it was not looking good for us to continue. In some ways youre like the teacher you were just describing. His most recent novel, "Wolf In White Van," is now out in paperback. You know, like the idea that you could - that there was a world behind the world. This is John Darnielle (laughing) performing "The Best Ever Death Metal Band Out f Denton. And the other thing is I feel a duty, you know? "Palmcorder Yajna" (2004) (We Shall All Be Healed) A single from 2004's We Shall All Be Healed, "Palmcorder Yajna" is, musically, about as straightforward a rock song as the Mountain . GROSS: And your anger at your stepfather for doing things like throwing glasses at your mother's head. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. And Kin by Jergovi, which is like a thousand page booknormally if somebody sends you a big brick of a book, you go maybe I'll get to that and maybe I won't, but I was like, well, shoot, I'm already reading Croatian stuff and I have time, let me do thatit was amazing. GROSS: Your character has survived a self-inflicted gunshot wound. I think I had become violent under the influence of the opiate antagonist they put in me, which I think was Narcan, but I'm not sure. I was actually a little worried about it because I see so few people at home. If you made something the kids like to play with, don't stand around and tell them how play with it. I mean, and everybody's different is such a facile truism that I think we say, well, of course everybody's different. Thanks. I really think there's a lot of music you can use to heal and save yourself. DARNIELLE: I don't know that I wanted to wield the power so much as I wanted them to see what it felt like to want that. GROSS: What is it that you did to yourself? I'm in the living room watching the Watergate hearings while my stepfather yells at my mother, launches a glass across the room straight at her head. "Light up the sky like a comet/Make yourself want to. Maybe some people end up writing the same book they sat down to write in the first place, but I almost never do. June 2, 2022 If you're a Mountain Goats fan who's missed the white-knuckle intensity of John Darnielle's earlier work, "Training Montage" provides a bliss-inducingly anthemic payoff. My dude was The Incredible Hulk. You know, I was like - and think about - when you'd hear about devil worshippers right? It's like there's also - I'm becoming a person who, owing to the last 10 years or so of experience, has really learned to internalize stuff and is taking stuff out on himself. And those are the ones, you know, you want to have a harder look at. I mean, but obviously it was a chaotic environment that I was a child in. Dan Sinker is a journalist, culture critic, and talks about politics on the "Says Who" podcast. But the payoff, about unraveling complicated truths and discovering that what you find isn't what you went looking for, resonates for far longer than the fading feedback of a three-minute song. Ryan Russell, DL Andersoni/Courtesy of the artists DARNIELLE: (Singing) All right. And I had this vision of them just fleeing toward - at the time I was in recovery - and there's a thing that they talk about, doing a geographical, right? Darnielle writes literary lyrics for his band, often telling stories about fictional characters or stories from his life, and he has expanded beyond lyrics into novels. ", Clockwise from upper left: Shakey Graves, Trio Mediaeval, The Mountain Goats, Mr. Mitch, The War On Drugs, Elliot Moss, GAS And the first one I'm 5. You can't speak monolithically about why people do that. I hope its already too late. It merits a little staring. DARNIELLE: I think if you'd have asked me at either point, I would've said I wanted to die, but not right then (laughter). Metal sort of - it has its own code of cool, but it's not really trying to be cool, you know? It's very - 'cause I hang out and sign records for an hour or two hours every night. I mean, I didn't want to stop using drugs, and I didn't stop using drugs. And all those sorts of things. And I'm wondering if that was your case when you were a teenager, that you needed - you seriously needed a world to retreat to. And then, as it ramped up towards this ending scene, it was sort of getting away from me. I understand a little, the social dictate to not stare at misshapen people. And it wasn't going anywhere in particular. The best ever death metal band out of Denton will, in time, both outpace and outlive you. ", The singer-songwriter's parents divorced when he was 5 years old, and he was abused by his stepfather. John Darnielle ( / drnil /; [1] born March 16, 1967) [2] is an American musician, novelist, and actor best known as the primary, and originally sole, member of the American band the Mountain Goats, for which he is the writer, composer, guitarist, pianist, and vocalist. I don't think it's possible to write something without telling the world something about yourself. As a teenager, he's lived in the fantasies created by others, like "Conan The Barbarian" comics. December 15, 2022 We ranked a list of 100 songs that reflects the sprawling, energetic messiness of 2022. One was named Cyrus and the other was Jeff. John Darnielle on Depeche Mode's debut album Speak & Spell. I mean - this is tying into the book - it's like I really wanted to destroy myself, but I wasn't ready. It's like - but I know because they tell me that what I do is useful to them, and this is an honor so profound that I don't know how to talk about it. When the police come to get me, I'm listening to dance music, dance music. We were in Alabama and I had been going to fly home, but by the end of that week, it was like, you know, I think I'll drive, because it didnt feel safe to get on a plane right then. Was it therapeutic for you to be with them and to be the older person and to be, you know, more of the authority figure, more of the adult, more of the person who was there to help and guide them as the person as opposed to the person who was in danger of giving in to that kind of urge themselves? Terry spoke with John Darnielle last fall when Wolf In White Van was published in hardback. And that was beautiful. You have friends whose parents are divorcing when they're teenagers and, you know, that's sort of like a wrecking ball just coming into the world that seemed stable for them. And we pulled up to her house one evening after an evening out, pretty high, I think, and she said - I remember the phrasing cause it was unusual - what's a police doing at my house, right? When The Mountain Goats' founder John Darnielle was a teenager, he went through a self-destructive phase. I don't have to do anything else with it, whereas the listener has to unpack it and relate it to their own life. The Mountain Goats perform on Mountain Stage. This is the best one. But they still sung! And that was beautiful because it's how you feel when you have a very strong feeling of resentment or anger and you can't do anything with it. In the weeks since the tragic death of John Darnielle, lead singer of The Mountain Goats, revealing new details have come to light about the circumstances surrounding his fatal accident. DARNIELLE: Then we kept right on at it. DARNIELLE: They - yes. But that's how I feel about that music was all to me, and it's incredible to me that people can use [my music] in that way. Product Details About the Author Product Details About the Author It would be pretty hard to make me feel ugly. Yeah (laughter) there's - I think I was in a lot of denial about who knew what back then, but, yeah, my friends knew. John Darnielle 1995, novelist and lead singer of The Mountain Goats Eric Douglas American actor and stand-up comedian, son of Kirk Douglas, brother of Michael Douglas Mablean Ephriam '71, former prosecutor for the city of Los Angeles, television personality and actress Kevin de Len 2003, president of the California State Senate I was doing this in high school myself, Id say Oh Bowie? GROSS: So you say you decided you didn't want to die. The guy who. DARNIELLE: Right? Ellius Grace/Courtesy of the artist And I hope when you think of me years down the line, you can't find one good thing to say. Lalitree Darnielle/Courtesy of the artist, Ryan Russell, DL Andersoni/Courtesy of the artists, NPR's favorite music of August, from rocking goats to swamp pop, New Mix: Margo Price, renforshort, The Mountain Goats, Tianna Esperanza, more, A true crime writer struggles with his responsibility to the victims in 'Devil House', New Music Friday: Our Top 6 Albums For April 26, The Mountain Goats' 'In League With Dragons' Ventures Beyond The Dungeon, The Mountain Goats Announces Dungeons & Dragons-Inspired Album, I Hope We Both Die: How The Mountain Goats Wrote The Ultimate Anthem To Dysfunction, Hear The Mountain Goats' New Surprise EP, 'Hex Of Infinite Binding', Hear The Mountain Goats' Ode To WWE's 'Legit Boss,' Sasha Banks, Watch Live Performances By Joe Henry, Nellie McKay, The Mountain Goats And More, Hear The Mountain Goats' Surprise EP About Ozzy Osbourne, Laura Jane Grace Covers The Mountain Goats' 'Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton', The Mountain Goats On Growing Up, And Growing Older, In Goth, New Mix: Shakey Graves, The War On Drugs, The Mountain Goats, More, In 'Universal Harvester,' Mountain Goats Lyricist Reaps A Creepy Crop, Review: The Mountain Goats, 'Beat The Champ'. It's called "No Children.". They don't need to be helping you. You still bring you, the self, is a giant thing, right? And it was when I first started to notice sort of cracks in the edifice of the new home. John Darnielle, center, is lead singer of the Mountain Goats, which has put out more than 600 songs since they formed in 1991. And I hope the junkyard a few blocks from here someday burns down. September 1, 2022 Punches flew from the Mountain Goats, Roc Marciano and The Alchemist teamed up, Tomu DJ took unexpected turns, Julia Jacklin looked deep within, Eli Winter opened up and Tommy McLain returned. It's like - it can be very heavy, you know? And they're fairly honest with each other, which is their one saving grace. I get emotional when I think about it, because the Incredible Hulk was fiercely loyal to people who treated him well. So what was the outcome of the police showing up and finding you? And, yeah, that was the - that was the feeling. Touring is the main thing. And then, anyone who mistreated them, he wanted to destroy - utterly - not just to punish, but to pulverize. Now, songwriter John Darnielle has delivered. I was really into John Berryman and so impressed by the idea of making some project where you had the same character that you did 400 poems about. We may earn a commission from these links. I would put them on, and you could disappear into, you know - Lou Reed's "Rock 'n' Roll Animal" was a big one I would I go under, or early Genesis records, I confess with a little chagrin (laughter). He says he likes helping young people find shelter through his music because music helped him as a young person. Learn more about your subscription packages. "I mean, the one thing is, I fully inhabit the song, completely buying into it." Darnielle said. "Im pretty much a hermit," john darnielle says. But at the same time - so there are these forbidden things that sort of call to you from the distance. It was heartbreaking in a way because I had been having active fantasies of being in a room full of happy, singing faces. With the albums, when the pandemic hit, I already had both Dark in Here and Getting into Knives tracked and recorded. But the thing about that skillset is that it involves reaching people in their emotional centers, so its natural to think, Well, that person made me feel something. But no, I didn't. I mean, because you're smart enough to know how dangerous it is. I hope the worst isn't over. hide caption. It's much louder than other musics than I was - I wanted to know about this extreme music. January 26, 2022 Novelist John Darnielle also singer-songwriter with the Mountain Goats has a hero who wants to honor the victims he's writing about but doesn't much like them. Don't ascribe perfection to anybody, you know? I had most of the moving parts in place because I've been working on it for four or five years. John Darnielle performs with The Mountain Goats at a 2015 concert in Birmingham, Ala. I sit down at the piano or guitar, and I don't get up till I'm done. I get to do this. This is FRESH AIR. hide caption. DAVIES: John Darnielle is the founder, singer and songwriter of The Mountain Goats. I think - I mean, I think the more I dig, the more I think that's, like - that's important, but so is the fact that, you know, that my parents divorced when I was 5, which is, like, you know, there's a lot bigger problems to have. Its chorus"I'm gonna make it through this year if it kills me"is a mantra. I hope we both die. I carried a razor around in my wallet, a sharp razor. Well hear more after a break. Darnielle, who is also a father to two sons, improvised a short ditty while one of his children played the game. My face is strange and terrible. And it wasn't the demonic stuff that attracted me then. But generally speaking, you know, the parameters of working involve checking yourself at the door. Every product was carefully curated by an Esquire editor. Ahead of The Mountain Goats' fall tour, the lead singer spoke about what spirituality looks like in his life now, from praying with his four-year-old son to grappling with God's message in. So we did it the same day he did. You may have a bunch of ideas, but before you go into the studio you don't have any idea what you're doing because you've never done it. What I did is I made a thing, and somebody who needed to find something found mine and chose to meet me out on that ground. If you - I mean, Satan is an awesome weapon in that case because, you know, these people who really strongly believe that, if they see you talking about how you want to worship Satan or whatever, it's sort of like if you're working with 2-year-olds, right? hide caption. I started just writing a scene with a bunch of teenagers in high school smoking cigarettes. I spoke with Darnielle on the phone from his home in Durham, N.C. about creating art amid the chaos of the pandemic, being off the road for so long, unraveling his complicated truths while writing Devil House, and making it through this year without it killing him. For John Darnielle, the acclaimed lead singer of The Mountain Goats and a 2014 National Book Award nominee, wondering "Why not Piper?" is exactly the kind of question he asks when deciding what it will take to perform another great rock show. So this is a song written and sung by my guest, John Darnielle, from Mountain Goats album "Tallahassee." DARNIELLE: Yes, it was a very heavy feeling for me that I carried for a long time. He valued and treasured his friends and anyone who mistreated them, he wanted to destroy, utterly not just to punish, but to pulverize. Oh, he's God. Of course, whether you accept or reject the existence of God, I guarantee you, it's not a guy making records. And I was like, no, no, no. You hear about the evil things. DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. You're not thinking that this is a guy who goes home and maybe he serves himself some chili out of a can and watches TV. ", John Darnielle's first novel was about a teenage boy in a psychiatric institution who is obsessed with heavy metal. DARNIELLE: So I'd always try to keep myself out of it. Devil House caps the end of two remarkably productive plague years for Darnielle. hide caption. Oh my god. Well, I think there's devils in other DARNIELLE: But the idea of this single, malevolent, radical, personified force of Satan - right? And when things would get really rough in my head, I would just go cut my arms or legs. By the time we get to "No Children," they're just fighting all the time. Many of the songs are about professional wrestling. And they practiced twice a week in Jeff's bedroom. If you're 16, it's like, you know, your friends don't like it. Copyright 2015 NPR. The Mountain Goats' new album, Beat the Champ, comes out April 7. The main character is an author trying to separate myth from fact in the old murder hes investigating, and it seems like mainly he discovers that there are so many blurred lines between the two. And this week, .css-umdwtv{-webkit-text-decoration:underline;text-decoration:underline;text-decoration-thickness:.0625rem;text-decoration-color:#FF3A30;text-underline-offset:0.25rem;color:inherit;-webkit-transition:background 0.4s;transition:background 0.4s;background:linear-gradient(#ffffff, #ffffff 50%, #d5dbe3 50%, #d5dbe3);-webkit-background-size:100% 200%;background-size:100% 200%;}.css-umdwtv:hover{color:#000000;text-decoration-color:border-link-body-hover;-webkit-background-position:100% 100%;background-position:100% 100%;}Devil House, his latest, hits shelves. I hope we both die. Our conversation has been edited and condensed. And a 2-year-old finds out what really bothers you, well, he's extraordinarily excited to have this power now. GROSS: John Darnielle, thank you so much for talking with us. We can be two messes together. But theres an intensity in some Mountain Goats fans' relationship with you that feels a little like what youre talking about. Its a rogues gallery struck through with loss and heartbreak but ultimately held together by hope. John is a writer whose 2014 debut novel Wolf in White Van was nominated for a National Book Award. When I'm done writing it, I'm done. Were you, like, doing drugs? Although he remains the core member of the band, he has worked with a variety of collaborators over time, including bassist and . GROSS: And did you have comic books, too? And I hope you blink before I do. And it's what, you know - it's what can carry you through the hard times. THE MOUNTAIN GOATS: (Singing) I hope that our few remaining friends give up on trying to save us. The best ever death metal band out of Denton never settled on a name. Claremont, Los Angeles County, California, United States. And I was just really attracted to this religious thing. His lyrics are literary, often telling stories about fictional characters or stories straight from his life. At the same time, I was afraid to approach it too much. This is the adult version of the character talking about people's reaction to his disfigured face. And he had his own share of trouble and alienation when he was a teenager, as we'll soon hear. In Devil House, a true crime author buys a house in the suburbs of San Francisco to investigate a grisly murder that happened inside the home a couple decades earlier. Oh, perfect. GROSS: What each track means and what Ozzy Osbourne symbolizes and so on. Its normal to have a job and to have to blow off steam about the parts that are getting on your nerves. I say where my limits are, you know? All those sorts of things. What did religion mean to you? When he was angry or upset in any other way, when his emotions were too strong, he was transformed into this creature who destroyed. "Your intelligence doesn't override your desire to destroy yourself," Darnielle tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross. It's like there's - people choose to engage my music because when I say - if I make something people can use - I really think there's a lot of music that you can use to heal and save yourself. hide caption. November 29, 2017 Stream video of live performances from top singer-songwriters and folk artists as Mountain Stage celebrates its 34th anniversary. The Mountain Goats' albums have featured a constantly changing line-up of musicians, with Darnielle the only constant; when performing live, the band . So I thought, well, he shouldn't be dead then. People do look at it quite often, but usually only if they can convince themselves that I won't notice they're looking.

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